SPACE THREAD - UFOs, Grand Solar Minimum, Asteroids, CME's etc .. SpaceX, NASA, Blue Origin to Moon/Mars

May 21, 2021
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@Truthisfree Lunar Starship lander:

A look into the not too distant future. These are based on the most recent concepts & current iterations by @NASA & @SpaceX






I was wondering how they were going to land it on the moon ( no atmosphere ) without kicking dust etc all over the place. So it seems they have retro rockets built in to the crew cargo area top third.
You'll love this video...

 

T. Leaf

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You'll love this video...

I like the man’s optimism and I love the animations. As long as the spacecraft look like slim pencils, then landing will always present dangers. Why could not those things be widened considerably at the bottom? When are they going to move on to flying saucers?
 

Robutnua

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Its this month lads .. ARE WE ALONE


Later this month, U.S. intelligence agencies will present to Congress a highly-anticipated unclassified report about what they know about UFOs, or as the Pentagon now calls them, Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UAPs).

As some people in teh UFO/UAP community are excitedly calling it FULL DISCLOSURE .. finally!!!
 

Robutnua

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Near the lower left corner of this view is the three-petal lander platform that NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit drove off in January 2004. The lander is still bright, but with a reddish color, probably due to accumulation of Martian dust. The High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter recorded this view on Jan. 29, 2012, providing the first image from orbit to show Spirit's lander platform in color. ( From space.com )
 

Robutnua

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A recent study claims to have found evidence for mushroom-like life forms on the surface of Mars. As it happens, these particular features are well known and were discovered by cameras aboard NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity, shortly after it landed in 2004.

They are not, in fact, living organisms at all, but "hematite concretions" — small sphere-shaped pieces of the mineral hematite, and their exact origin is still debated by scientists. Hematite is a compound of iron and oxygen and is commercially important on Earth. ( From Space.com )


 

midlander12

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From 2016 when at the time new Independence day movie came out ..

I see Hawking mentioned a 'colony of ants'. I remember watching a programme years ago where one of the contributors (no idea who) said that an advanced alien civilisation capable of reaching earth would most likely regard us as akin to 'cockroaches' - pointless and annoying insects.

I think we now have sufficient evidence, partly thanks to the Pentagon, that something is going on in terms of UAP's that is well (i.e. possibly 1000 years) in advance of any technology available to the US, Russia or China. That is enough for me to prefer caution in this 'pursuit' - apart from as research subjects into how lesser civilisations developed, I cannot see how we would be of any interest to aliens or whatever is operating these vehicles. They may be very interested in our planet or some aspect of it (water supplies?), but that is an entirely different matter, and not necessarily leading to a positive outcome for humanity.
 

Gatsbygirl20

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I see Hawking mentioned a 'colony of ants'. I remember watching a programme years ago where one of the contributors (no idea who) said that an advanced alien civilisation capable of reaching earth would most likely regard us as akin to 'cockroaches' - pointless and annoying insects.

I think we now have sufficient evidence, partly thanks to the Pentagon, that something is going on in terms of UAP's that is well (i.e. possibly 1000 years) in advance of any technology available to the US, Russia or China. That is enough for me to prefer caution in this 'pursuit' - apart from as research subjects into how lesser civilisations developed, I cannot see how we would be of any interest to aliens or whatever is operating these vehicles. They may be very interested in our planet or some aspect of it (water supplies?), but that is an entirely different matter, and not necessarily leading to a positive outcome for humanity.
The thinking in my youth was that aliens, if they existed, were somehow benevolent ---curious about our civilization and anxious to communicate with us, and perhaps share their knowledge with us

This led to a kind of hokey, sentimental, hands-across-the-universe attitude, where we should try to contact other civilisations and let them know we're here

How daft is that?

Shouldn't we be hiding, and hoping nobody will notice us?

These aliens are more likely to be bad bastards who would use us for their own nefarious ends.

Even if they appear on first contact to be superficially benevolent, our status would be akin to the Native Americans when confronted by the first European explorers.

If they are so far ahead of us in technology and invention, etc, inevitably they would fukk us over--- in the manner of all conquerors and colonisers through the ages.
 

midlander12

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The thinking in my youth was that aliens, if they existed, were somehow benevolent ---curious about our civilization and anxious to communicate with us, and perhaps share their knowledge with us

This led to a kind of hokey, sentimental, hands-across-the-universe attitude, where we should try to contact other civilisations and let them know we're here

How daft is that?

Shouldn't we be hiding, and hoping nobody will notice us?

These aliens are more likely to be bad bastards who would use us for their own nefarious ends.

Even if they appear on first contact to be superficially benevolent, our status would be akin to the Native Americans when confronted by the first European explorers.

If they are so far ahead of us in technology and invention, etc, inevitably they would fukk us over--- in the manner of all conquerors and colonisers through the ages.
Yes the Carpenters even had a song about it.....

It's not even a question of whether they would be 'bad bastards' or not. They would just inevitably view us as inferior, in the same way as we regard insects or farm animals, let alone the unfortunate Native Americans and Australians.

By the way I am not convinced UAP's necessarily originate from planets light-years away. Given the level of technology involved perhaps they originate from other civilisations based right here on earth, but invisible to our primitive eyes and radar. If so, they probably know all about us and will leave us alone as long as return the favour.
 

Robutnua

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Well first thing is I believe from the get go, that across the massiveness of space and universe(s) + possibility of parallel universes that you eluded to @midlander12 there has to be others besides ourselves. The whole thing cannot be just for us.

To get to us, unless they are living very close to us in say our solar system they would have to be seriously advanced to travel such distances, having light speeds and/or wormholes cracked and craft capable of circumnavigating such things. So I imagine if a species is that advanced one would hope with that advancement has come higher things than just need to conquer and annihilate?
 
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seanof

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Well first thing is I believe from the get go, that across the massiveness of space and universe(s) + possibility of parallel universes that you eluded to @midlander12 there has to be others besides ourselves. The whole thing cannot be just for us.

To get to us, unless they are living very close to us in say our solar system they would have to be seriously advanced to travel such distances, having light speeds and/or wormholes cracked and craft capable of circumnavigating such things. So I imagine if a species is that advanced one would hope with that advancement has come higher things than just need to conquer and annihilate?
It may be unfair, but I think it's safest to treat any extraterrestial beings we encounter as if they were English, at least until their trustworthiness is confirmed beyond doubt.
 

Gatsbygirl20

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Yes the Carpenters even had a song about it.....

It's not even a question of whether they would be 'bad bastards' or not. They would just inevitably view us as inferior, in the same way as we regard insects or farm animals, let alone the unfortunate Native Americans and Australians.

By the way I am not convinced UAP's necessarily originate from planets light-years away. Given the level of technology involved perhaps they originate from other civilisations based right here on earth, but invisible to our primitive eyes and radar. If so, they probably know all about us and will leave us alone as long as return the favour.
It is interesting that you think these UAPs or UFOs are possibly based here on earth, but usually invisible to the "primitive" human eye and radar

That is what a lot of religious folk believe--that God, angels, etc are present among us in spirit form but invisible to our limited mortal vision

I practise no religion, and I cannot believe in an Afterlife, no matter how hard I try, but I remain neutral about spirits, etc

There may be a whole spiritual parallel world invisible to us---just as electricity and all its magic was not understood by primitive man, until eventually we learned to harness it--and thereby create miraculous things from kettles boiling to lights going on all over the globe--pure magic as far as our primitive ancestors were concerned

Yet if one suggests in rational company that there may be spiritual beings invisible to the human eye, one is laughed at and told to stop talking nonsense

And indeed that used to be the reaction to Ufologists and all their tales of sightings of strange objects. Pilots and the military all had their tales too. None taken seriously outside tabloid sensationalism.

What changed?

Why are we suddenly taking this stuff seriously?
 

Robutnua

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It is interesting that you think these UAPs or UFOs are possibly based here on earth, but usually invisible to the "primitive" human eye and radar
In a new, leaked video, what appears to be a UFO flies around a Navy ship off the coast of San Diego before suddenly disappearing after flying into the water.

 

Robutnua

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Yet if one suggests in rational company that there may be spiritual beings invisible to the human eye, one is laughed at and told to stop talking nonsense

And indeed that used to be the reaction to Ufologists and all their tales of sightings of strange objects. Pilots and the military all had their tales too. None taken seriously outside tabloid sensationalism.

What changed?

Why are we suddenly taking this stuff seriously?
I always find this fascinating. The very reality that we are here at all, life itself and then the thought of things like lets say the universe ends out there somewhere - us humans seem to need boxes around things. But then the Q, Ok so the universe ends, lets say it hits a wall .. so whats beyond that "wall" and again and again. Now that surely fcks with your head, we just cannot comprehend such a thing mentally, we need a box.

Take all that plus even take "the mind", where is it. We seem to feel its in our head, has to have a place, but is it?

SO .. with likes of above that we cannot explain why is anything else like spiritual beings, UFOs etc a stretch too far? In fact what is rational company, by whos definition?

Why suddenly taking serious .. Due to certain individuals like Luis Elizondo and many more who finally got the pentagon to take reports of such things by there pilots and military and set up a proper reporting scenario around it rather than the trad thing of keep mouth shut, otherwise you get fired/retired. Also add the US military getting very fearful that these things ( some of ) maybe Russian, Chinese .. although they seriously doubt this. Seen as a serious threat to national security



“To this end, it is equally critical that all U.S. military aircrews or government personnel report whenever aircraft or other devices interfere with military training. This includes the observation and reporting of UAPs.”

Part of the data collection effort is destigmatizing UAPs and pushing pilots to report what they see, even when what they see is implausible.

“A big problem around UAPs has been the cultural stigma,” said Rep. Andre Carson, an Indiana Democrat and member of the House Intelligence Committee, in an interview last week. “It has largely been relegated to science fiction.”
 
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Gatsbygirl20

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In a new, leaked video, what appears to be a UFO flies around a Navy ship off the coast of San Diego before suddenly disappearing after flying into the water.

So the same guy had already got videos of another UFO a short time before he happened to see this latest flying phenomenon?

Like those ghost hunters who always claim to be seeing ghosts...

There could be rational explanations for all this.

We already have any number of fuzzy black-and-white videos of "ghosts" disappearing into walls, and doors opening and closing on their own.

As is the case with "ghosts", people have been claiming to see UFOs for a long time. Lots of fuzzy video footage, and stories down the years about strange flying metallic objects hovering and then disappearing, etc

For some reason, the powers-that-be have suddenly decided to take this UFO thing seriously

Why?

Are they trying to distract us from something?
 

midlander12

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Dec 4, 2018
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It is interesting that you think these UAPs or UFOs are possibly based here on earth, but usually invisible to the "primitive" human eye and radar

That is what a lot of religious folk believe--that God, angels, etc are present among us in spirit form but invisible to our limited mortal vision

I practise no religion, and I cannot believe in an Afterlife, no matter how hard I try, but I remain neutral about spirits, etc

There may be a whole spiritual parallel world invisible to us---just as electricity and all its magic was not understood by primitive man, until eventually we learned to harness it--and thereby create miraculous things from kettles boiling to lights going on all over the globe--pure magic as far as our primitive ancestors were concerned

Yet if one suggests in rational company that there may be spiritual beings invisible to the human eye, one is laughed at and told to stop talking nonsense

And indeed that used to be the reaction to Ufologists and all their tales of sightings of strange objects. Pilots and the military all had their tales too. None taken seriously outside tabloid sensationalism.

What changed?

Why are we suddenly taking this stuff seriously?
I'm not sure the pilots etc were in fact universally laughed at, but anyway what seems to have happened is that the sheer number of reports made the issue impossible to ignore. The Pentagon states that only one of the incidents reported in last month's report has an actual rational explanation.

I don't believe in religion or an afterlife either, but I equally cannot rule out the existence of other dimensions of existence alongside us that we are unaware of. It seems to me to be at least as logical as visitors from constellations millions of light-years away, however many of them may support other civilisations.

Of course this may all be a convenient distraction from US military experiments, and some of it possibly is, but I very much doubt that is the full explanation.
 

midlander12

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I always find this fascinating. The very reality that we are here at all, life itself and then the thought of things like lets say the universe ends out there somewhere - us humans seem to need boxes around things. But then the Q, Ok so the universe ends, lets say it hits a wall .. so whats beyond that "wall" and again and again. Now that surely fcks with your head, we just cannot comprehend such a thing mentally, we need a box.

Take all that plus even take "the mind", where is it. We seem to feel its in our head, has to have a place, but is it?

SO .. with likes of above that we cannot explain why is anything else like spiritual beings, UFOs etc a stretch too far? In fact what is rational company, by whos definition?

Why suddenly taking serious .. Due to certain individuals like Luis Elizondo and many more who finally got the pentagon to take reports of such things by there pilots and military and set up a proper reporting scenario around it rather than the trad thing of keep mouth shut, otherwise you get fired/retired. Also add the US military getting very fearful that these things ( some of ) maybe Russian, Chinese .. although they seriously doubt this. Seen as a serious threat to national security



“To this end, it is equally critical that all U.S. military aircrews or government personnel report whenever aircraft or other devices interfere with military training. This includes the observation and reporting of UAPs.”

Part of the data collection effort is destigmatizing UAPs and pushing pilots to report what they see, even when what they see is implausible.

“A big problem around UAPs has been the cultural stigma,” said Rep. Andre Carson, an Indiana Democrat and member of the House Intelligence Committee, in an interview last week. “It has largely been relegated to science fiction.”
The specific reason was that Senator Harry Reid, a very prominent Democrat (now retired I think), took the whole issue on board some years ago and persuaded other credible DC types to join him in looking into it.
 

Robutnua

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The specific reason was that Senator Harry Reid, a very prominent Democrat (now retired I think), took the whole issue on board some years ago and persuaded other credible DC types to join him in looking into it.
Yip just watching show on BLAZE about that actually ( 8pm ) .. BUT Luis Elizondo also had a big part to play in this ..
 
May 21, 2021
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Work carries on apace in Boca Chica Tx to build the first Orbital Starship, this includes work to build all the infrastructure and ancillary equipment. The scale involved is absolutely massive.



For reference, the booster on the test pad on the left is approx 80 meters high by 9 meters wide. The tower on the right is 120 meters high if I remember right.

We haven't seen a space project of this scale since the Apollo missions to the moon. Starship will have twice the thrust of the Saturn V, with 29 engines producing 16 million lbs (72 MegaNewtons) of maximum thrust. I'm just delighted that I get to see this in my lifetime.
 

Shaadi

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One of those age old Qs I suppose and has knocked around my mind now and again with wonder

Is time travel possible?

There is so much that I can't even comprehend, such as the make up of dark matter and other dimensions and so on, but on Time Travel I have my own logic.

Linear time is like an incredibly long fuse cable.

The passage of time is like a flame moving along the fuse cable. The physical events that have occured as time passes can't be undone. They are the burnt away part of the fuse cable. It may be possible to take a short cut and speed forward into the future but when you got to a point in the future there would be no living past to go back to.
 

snorlax

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There is so much that I can't even comprehend, such as the make up of dark matter and other dimensions and so on, but on Time Travel I have my own logic.

Linear time is like an incredibly long fuse cable.

The passage of time is like a flame moving along the fuse cable. The physical events that have occured as time passes can't be undone. They are the burnt away part of the fuse cable. It may be possible to take a short cut and speed forward into the future but when you got to a point in the future there would be no living past to go back to.
Close. Imagine that the flame on the fuse extending infintely above and below the fuse and you are closer. Time has two dimensions.

Here's a description of four dimensions from the SF writier Liu Cixin:

"
A person looking back upon the three-dimensional world from four-dimensional space for the first time realized this right away: He had never seen the world while he was in it. If the three-dimensional world were likened to a picture, all he had seen before was just a narrow view from the side: a line. Only from four-dimensional space could he see the picture as a whole. He would describe it this way: Nothing blocked whatever was placed behind it. Even the interiors of sealed spaces were laid open. This seemed a simple change, but when the world was displayed this way, the visual effect was utterly stunning. When all barriers and concealments were stripped away, and everything was exposed, the amount of information entering the viewer’s eyes was hundreds of millions times greater than when he was in three-dimensional space. The brain could not even process so much information right away.

In Morovich and Guan’s eyes, Blue Space was a magnificent, immense painting that had just been unrolled. They could see all the way to the stern, and all the way to the bow; they could see the inside of every cabin and every sealed container in the ship; they could see the liquid flowing through the maze of tubes, and the fiery ball of fusion in the reactor at the stern.... Of course, the rules of perspective remained in operation, and objects far away appeared indistinct, but everything was visible.

Given this description, those who had never experienced four-dimensional space might get the wrong impression that they were seeing everything “through” the hull. But no, they were not seeing “through” anything. Everything was laid out in the open, just like when we look at a circle drawn on a piece of paper, we can see the inside of the circle without looking “through” anything. This kind of openness extended to every level, and the hardest part was describing how it applied to solid objects. One could see the interior of solids, such as the bulkheads or a piece of metal or a rock—one could see all the cross sections at once! Morovich and Guan were drowning in a sea of information—all the details of the universe were gathered around them and fighting for their attention in vivid colors.

Morovich and Guan had to learn to deal with an entirely novel visual phenomenon: unlimited details. In three-dimensional space, the human visual system dealt with limited details. No matter how complicated the environment or the object, the visible elements were limited. Given enough time, it was always possible to take in most of the details one by one. But when one viewed the three-dimensional world from four-dimensional space, all concealed and hidden details were revealed simultaneously, since three-dimensional objects were laid open at every level. Take a sealed container as an example: One could see not only what was inside, but also the interiors of the objects inside. This boundless disclosure and exposure led to the unlimited details on display.

Everything in the ship lay exposed before Morovich and Guan, but even when observing some specific object, such as a cup or a pen, they saw infinite details, and the information received by their visual systems was incalculable. Even a lifetime would not be enough to take in the shape of any one of these objects in four-dimensional space. When an object was revealed at all levels in four-dimensional space, it created in the viewer a vertigo-inducing sensation of depth, like a set of Russian nesting dolls that went on without end. Bounded in a nutshell but counting oneself a king of infinite space was no longer merely a metaphor."
 
May 21, 2021
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And @RelentlessApathy! Apparently that tower is also for the test flights for manned missions to MARS

As soon as they prove the orbital flight and enter production, an unmanned lunar orbit mission should be on a cards as a demonstration. If the Starship system is successful as a whole, Mars will happen but I suspect the logistics of the mission will mean an added year or two.
 

Robutnua

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Do the past or the future even exist until they're happening? Is the only time now?
OR what you see in front of your eyes is what we perceive as there, whats behind you that you cannot see is not there until you turn your eyes to it
 
Nov 27, 2018
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Do the past or the future even exist until they're happening? Is the only time now?
No idea about the future, but the past does exist other than at the moment it is the present.

Last night there was a huge thunderstorm, lots of thunder and lighting. As the storm moved away, The gap between seeing the light ing and hearing the thunder grew, as sound travels far more slowly than light.

So hearing the thunder meant that something the past was because bring experienced in the then present, just as it is when you look at the stars. The past has to exist, in that sense, in order for it to have an effect on the present.

For me that where the whole “time is like a rel of cinema film” breaks down. It doesn’t make sense that each frame is a separate, self-contained “now”. Unless you believe totally creationism and predestination, it doesn’t hold up.

As for the future, I always had an idea for a sci-if story about a time machine.

An inventor builds a time machine, but it’s nowhere near powerful enough to send visible matter, but it is theorists also powerful enough to send small burst of energy, so it can send data.

It’s a transmitter and receiver, so the inventor fully expects that, if it works, as soon as he turns it on he/she should immediately receive messages from his/her future self via the future version of the same time machine.

The question is, what happened when he turned it on, and what if the first message he/she receives is not at all what he/she expects.

It‘s at this stage my head falls into “John Carpenter in his Lovecraftian prime” territory.
 
Nov 27, 2018
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There is so much that I can't even comprehend, such as the make up of dark matter and other dimensions and so on, but on Time Travel I have my own logic.

Linear time is like an incredibly long fuse cable.

The passage of time is like a flame moving along the fuse cable. The physical events that have occured as time passes can't be undone. They are the burnt away part of the fuse cable. It may be possible to take a short cut and speed forward into the future but when you got to a point in the future there would be no living past to go back to.
That implies that there is an “actual“ future to go to, or would you only go to a “potential” future, which might not be the future for the people who didn’t take the short cut?

Many-world theory versus “time and reslity are deterministic and in fixed circumstances ails” theory.

There was a very giid(but very slow) But TV show about this last year: Devs - the macguffin was a quantum computer powerful enough to run a deterministic model if the universe, so effectively it could accurately predict the past and the future in its model, if the single-world, deterministic universe model was actually true.
 

soccop

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Temporally dislocated.
That implies that there is an “actual“ future to go to, or would you only go to a “potential” future, which might not be the future for the people who didn’t take the short cut?

Many-world theory versus “time and reslity are deterministic and in fixed circumstances ails” theory.

There was a very giid(but very slow) But TV show about this last year: Devs - the macguffin was a quantum computer powerful enough to run a deterministic model if the universe, so effectively it could accurately predict the past and the future in its model, if the single-world, deterministic universe model was actually true.
Devs¿


Did it not just look into its heart and know everything.
 

Shaadi

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That implies that there is an “actual“ future to go to, or would you only go to a “potential” future, which might not be the future for the people who didn’t take the short cut?

Many-world theory versus “time and reslity are deterministic and in fixed circumstances ails” theory.

There was a very giid(but very slow) But TV show about this last year: Devs - the macguffin was a quantum computer powerful enough to run a deterministic model if the universe, so effectively it could accurately predict the past and the future in its model, if the single-world, deterministic universe model was actually true.
You would have a potential and real future as long as something catastrophic doesn't erase you or everything else in the meantime.

The future that you arrived to would see those that travelled there as normal being older than you or they could have died and so on.

You would be travelling to a future which would then be the present at that point in time.
 
Nov 27, 2018
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You would have a potential and real future as long as something catastrophic doesn't erase you or everything else in the meantime.

The future that you arrived to would see those that travelled there as normal being older than you or they could have died and so on.

You would be travelling to a future which would then be the present at that point in time.
Yep. For you it would the “the real future“, and the people around you would, EI you, be older versions of the same people from the time you travelled from.

But it be if two things had to have happened. Because it’s now “real” for you, and IF it’s ESL for you is real for everyone, then you’re either proving that reality is on rails, or you’ve, by time travelling, removed to possibility of any affecting change.

Or, this future is only a “potential” future, and, even more f you see the people around you as older versions of the people from your original time, they are different versions to the people who grew older at normal speed from your original time.

you&re not in a bubble, seorrste from cause and effect, so, unless the future is completed predetermined anyway, you’re actually of travelling forward in time changes the reality.

It’s clearer if you think about travelling back in time - the only way around the paradox of changing the past, and so rewriting the present, would be if, by the act of going back in time, the past is now a separate and parallel timeline.

Bsck to the Future can’t ever have worked. Planet of the Apes could have.

But if yesterday’s future is today’s now and tomorrow’s past, then we need the same two optionscl, a single, completely determined on-rails timeline, or parallel words, fir both forwards and backwards time travel.

The Everett Many-Worlds Theory is curious, as. It’s physics, not sci-do and apparently the numbers do add up correctly. So it mightn’t be true, but the maths behind it work.
 

Shaadi

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Of course the biggest problem with time travel is arriving at your destination. The assumption that time is a space curve and that we can cheat the curve of time by moving in a straightish line from the present to a point on the curve in the future.

If you could take off in a faster than the speed of light aircraft, you could head off for a year and come back to earth. However You would just have spent one year travelling very fast to arrive back at an Earth that had spent the same year travelling more slowly than you. Nothing would have changed, or would it.

The passage of time is less flexible than we think. While the speed of the earth rotating around the sun is the beginning point of our concept of time. In reality the Atomic Clocks should be the real reference points towards the passing of time.

Stick one Atomic Clock on your theoretical faster than light vehicle and after one year travelling at faster than the speed of light it will still read the same time as the Atomic clock back on Earth.
 
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