Rise of the Conspiro-Cult

Statsman

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[MOD]As the events of last Saturday are the subject of ongoing Garda investigations, we'd ask posters to be careful not to prejudice possible prosecutions.[/MOD]
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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There has always been lone wolves on the sidelines of society howling at the moon and offering their mad conspiracy theories.

But lately, there seems to be an exponential growth in the number of people subscribing to such batshit crazy theories.

From 5G to Covid Vaccines containing microchips and to a global media conspiracy to spread falsehoods, the conspiracies don’t seem to be disappearing.

Is social media fuelling this Stuff? - A platform for such lone wolves to post their conspiracies which never existed 10-15 years ago.

Either way, in the large scale absence of proper debate in such looney theories, they have grown legs. People like Gemma O’Doherty get off too lightly in my view. Just yesterday she was gloating about the death of the Garda in Castlerea, yet her platform remains to post all sorts of theories.

What can be done to challenge these conspiracy theories from corrupting the minds of vulnerable people?
 

Truthisfree

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Nov 27, 2018
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People have more time on their hands now and especially over the last three months, spend more time on social media and are attracted to what interests them most. There has always been idiots and there always will that will go with any batshit loony theory that gives them an easy loony theory rather than put in the time and effort to research and fact check. Don't forget, if you are an average IQ then 50% are stupider than you, and more importantly 50% are clever than you as well.
 

Statsman

The nice one, or so it seemed.
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People have more time on their hands now and especially over the last three months, spend more time on social media and are attracted to what interests them most. There has always been idiots and there always will that will go with any batshit loony theory that gives them an easy loony theory rather than put in the time and effort to research and fact check. Don't forget, if you are an average IQ then 50% are stupider than you, and more importantly 50% are clever than you as well.
That's not how averages work. That would be a median IQ.
 

curio

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Feb 26, 2019
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There's people who spent their whole life receiving information by TV and radio coming to the internet via FB and they mistake the algorithms as confirmation and affirmation of basic primal human biases.

I used FB until it was obvious that people new to the internet turned up. For people growing up programmed to receive, the process of posting an opinion would have felt hugely empowering, to have turned the tables on controlling the narrative, to literally flip the table on their lot in life.

For societies like the UK with a huge democratic deficit and rigid class system the internet provided a talkback channel that the government has being struggling to control since Brexit. Cummings might have used FB for grooming the unsuspecting for his own political agenda, but he overlooked that the same medium could be used to expose him as the public enemy too.

Large countries are like oil tankers, the rudder could have moved for a good while before people on the bridge observe that the ship has changed course. Trump and Brexit are like rudder room mutanies that the bridge doesn't realise are happening until it's too late. The Brexit mob in the rudder room don't trust anyone on the bridge anymore and HMS Brexit is heading for either the rocks of civil war or the sargasso sea of economic paralysis.

When the printing press was invented I'm sure Gutenberg didn't envisage his communications revolution would shatter christendom and cause decades of continental war. NI could well claim to be a remnant roadkill of his genius. Nailing treatises to a cathedral door was actually a normal practice by clerical novices, Erasmus had expressed challenging opinions before Luther. But it was Luther's treatises that were taken from the cathedral door by the local printers looking for anything new to sell to the expanding pool of the newly literate brought to reading by the affordability created by the printing press itself. Printing begat reading, which begat more printing.

Opinion and counter opinion could be printed rapidly. Today's UK tabloid partisanship would look familiar to the pamphleteers of the English Civil War.
 
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Truthisfree

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Nov 27, 2018
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There's people who spent their whole life receiving information by TV and radio coming to the internet via FB and they mistake the algorithms as confirmation and affirmation of basic primal human biases.

I used FB until it was obvious that people new to the internet turned up. For people growing up programmed to receive, the process of posting an opinion would have felt hugely empowering, to have turned the tables on controlling the narrative, to literally flip the table on their lot in life.

For societies like the UK with a huge democratic deficit and rigid class system the internet provided a talkback channel that the government has being struggling to control since Brexit. Cummings might have used FB for grooming the unsuspecting for his own political agenda, but he overlooked that the same medium could be used to expose him as the public enemy too.

Large countries are like oil tankers, the rudder could have moved for a good while before people on the bridge observe that the ship has changed course. Trump and Brexit are like rudder room mutanies that the bridge doesn't realise are happening until it's too late. The Brexit mob in the rudder room don't trust anyone on the bridge anymore and HMS Brexit is heading for either the rocks of civil war or the sargasso sea of economic paralysis.

When the printing press was invented I'm sure Gutenberg didn't envisage his communications revolution would shatter christendom and cause decades of continental war. NI could well claim to be a remnant roadkill of his genius. Nailing treatises to a cathedral door was actually a normal practice, Erasmus had expressed challenging opinions before Luther, but it was Luther treatises that were taken from the cathedral door by the local printers looking for something new to sell to a growing demand from an expanding audience of newly literate workers.
I like where you are coming from, I have to read it again, you really seem to know your info, I don't understand you, I like people I don't understand because I learn more from them than the people I do...
 

Cathal

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May 27, 2020
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George Carlin explains it well in this short clip. NSFW for some “robust” language.
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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@curio “There's people who spent their whole life receiving information by TV and radio coming to the internet via FB and they mistake the algorithms as confirmation and affirmation of basic primal human biases.”

Precisely. Great point. It isn’t a coincidence that a large data analytics company is behind the “news website” Gript which is a favourite amongst the demographic you describe.
 

Shaadi

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Feb 16, 2019
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I don't think that's its an organic thing arising from loons getting access to Internet and gathering a following. The well funded Right seem to be happy to disseminate any auld disinformation in an effort to spread distrust of the Centre and Left.

There's method in their madness.
 

curio

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Feb 26, 2019
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I don't think that's its an organic thing arising from loons getting access to Internet and gathering a following. The well funded Right seem to be happy to disseminate any auld disinformation in an effort to spread distrust of the Centre and Left.

There's method in their madness.
I would have thought the same in the past until I actually lived in north England for a few years. The main contrast between here and there is the level and process of representation. We've three times more TDs than they've got MPs and our PR STV voting doesn't allow a minority winning result enjoy a parliamentary majority, like Johnson's 43% of first preferences = 56% of parliamentary seats.

I found repeatedly that many English could tell me which party they voted for but few could actually name any of their own MPs. Along comes a straight yes/no question and all the problems that we'd be straight onto our TDs about got lumped onto the Brexit vote.

No doubt the Brexit movement had big donors, but the estrangement between the masses and Westminster was already there. The easy accessibility between voters and their TDs in Ireland while a problem in its own cute whore ways means that lies and rumours are easily understood as such. Our political complaints tend to be more about favoritism than neglect. Generally there seems to be more pity for Gemma's mental health than there is attention to her assertions.

To sum up I think in the UK the parliament and its ruling class that have for centuries been used to dictating the national narrative are now struggling with the two way openness of this internet age. It's been obvious that the further away we get away from the vote itself in 2016 the less it ever had to do with the EU.

The defence of Cummings was classic aloof ruling class which spent Boris's Brexit bounce by refocussing the masses towards the democratic deficit in which Brexit thrived. Defending Cummings has probably united Leavers and Remainers like nothing else could.

Edit to add, we in the EU have good reason to fear massive civil unrest in Britain, specifically England in the coming years. The Tories spent the last four years trying to regain the national narrative and if desperate they may turn on the medium of the internet itself.
 
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Dasayev

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Feb 20, 2019
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Yeah, if it's over the internet then how do you know it's real people pushing nonsense and not bots. The CIA, FSB, and everyother intelligence agency, Corporations, as well as any half-organised group could be putting out anything they want, and making it appear popular.

The issue, at the heart of the matter though, is one of trust. If politicians and states regularly engage in spin, cover-ups and lies, then in the long run all they will achieve is to help undermine their own authority, and slowly poison the well.

So there has to be consequences for lying. It certainly needs to be a goal citizens and government to promote knowledge and truth, not to be undermining such things.

If you want to live in an advanced society then it has to be accepted that truthfulness is at the heart of how things are run. Lying and spreading false information needs to be seen as undermining society, a bad practice worthy of shame, like racism or other awful things that were acceptable in the past.

Emulating the tactics of Putin's Russia, for example, will only drive everything backwards. Most peple don't actually want to live in a society where no one trusts anybody else.
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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Anyone else absolutely sick of seeing comments like “sheeple” when referring to people who believe the government strategy on Covid when these morons actively push every conspiracy theory without question?
 

ruserious

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This is precisely the type of poison going unchallenged around Irish Facebook pages lately:
 

ruserious

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ruserious

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ruserious

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I am always skeptical of these kinds of, what is really anecdotal reporting.
When no one is identified or recorded embellishment is easy.
It was from these two:

 
Nov 29, 2018
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I didn't know that.
How can you be that stupid?
Sorry it was the UK Times, not the IT.

Article link in Rus post above.


Conspiracy fans jubilant over demo ‘success’
Different protest groups came together in Dublin yesterday to object to the lockdown
Different protest groups came together in Dublin yesterday to object to the lockdown
BRYAN MEADE
Mark Tighe and Joe Galvin
Sunday February 28 2021, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times





"Among the protesters was Erica Parker, a mother of one from Swords, who was drinking a can of Heineken while holding a flyer from the National Party. Parker and her friend Susan wore matching black hoodies which said “RTE sold there [sic] souls” and “Save our children from the reptilians”.

Parker said she was protesting against the lockdown and vaccines. “We’re here to protest against RTE as well,” she added. Her friend said over “9,000 people went missing in Ireland last year”.

Asked how this was linked to RTE, the pair outlined a conspiracy theory that involved babies being killed and harvested for “adrenochrome” which is used to keep RTE celebrities “looking young” while the corpses are buried under the new children’s hospital.

The two claimed the government were “basically paedophiles” and that there were videos explaining this on a website known for hosting far-right speakers and conspiracy theories.
 
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Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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There was a piece on France 24 yesterday about fake news articles ...some of them are faking legit news outlets and photoshopping pictures...they photoshopped a pic of the new Italian interior minister recently to try and support their claims about immigration.....


I posted myself about people I've come across on the sites that buy into this shit I can only imagine the crap they have been reading now with time on their hands.....

Having worked in some of the kips themselves I'd like to believe even they aren't that stupid to believe that bodies are being buried under jobs after having their life force removed by the lizard people and the behest of RTE but then some of them don't believe the virus is real either.....
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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I just can't believe, how unbelievable it is to be believed.
It’s the same recycled theory that was spreading in the States in relation to the Democrats and Hollywood. See Pizzagate. All part of QAnon
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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I know but I had hoped we were smarter.
The problem lies with social media platforms by allowing those such as Ben Gilroy and Ben Scallan taking advantage of genuine issues and recruiting people to their cause. They masterfully link real issues with false grievances by laundering the truth with lies and feed them conspiracies.
 

Franzoni

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Nov 28, 2018
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I know but I had hoped we were smarter.

Once you create inequality to the levels we have seen in western democracies in recent years someone is going to come along and exploit the vacuum....we saw it in America and we saw it in Britain over the last few years...

You only have to look at some of the news reports this morning.. the Garda commissioner is already having to clarify remarks he made trying to blame people on the left for the mayhem yesterday........you can be sure FFG wont be far behind despite the reality that it was left wing parties who hsve been calling for tougher measures in relation to the Covid restrictions for months and the government who put us back in the shit over Christmas.....

The current regime will never accept the part they have played in creating the climate and the circumstances for the rise of fake news by the socio-economic policies they have enacted over the decades,abandoning social services like health and education to the church,housing to the private sector and so on not to mention none of the big players ever seeing the inside of a jail cell after countless tribunals and an economic meltdown ... so why do they or anyone else think that others might not follow suit looking for a bogeyman to blame rather than accepting the their own part in all this after all this is what we see at the top....

I'd say you will find out like I have if you get into any sort of conversation with these protestors on a one to one basis it becomes evident very quickly a lot of them don't vote or even understand the political history of the state, the parties in the Dail and how the country is run ......
 
Apr 24, 2020
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Pre Social media, getting your message out involved having a degree of expertise and evidence to support your ideas. Now fora like this give any loon a platform.

Moderation and "peer review" keep this place sane, but look at Pol Irish.

Also, pre social media, morons were excluded from dialogue outside of voting. Now those morons can engage with grifters and feel part of a movement. And they are made feel intelligent because "they know the truth".

Making your conspiracy about Chemtrails, microchips in vaccines and 5G death rays are a really good way of excluding any criticism of your grifting plans. As you will be surrounded by utter bovines.
 

hollandia

Literally knows shit
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Making your conspiracy about Chemtrails, microchips in vaccines and 5G death rays are a really good way of excluding any criticism of your grifting plans. As you will be surrounded by utter bovines.
That's why I'm currently funding the Irish-Catholic Space Laser™ to counter the Jewish Space Laser.

If you wish to make a patriotic contribution please DM your bank account details. We will not let the mainstream media paedophile lizard people win. Open your mind to the truth!

(But don't forget those bank details)
 
Nov 27, 2018
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Foucault’s Pendulum’s a great book. It described pretty much the faulty thought processes that leads to this type of madness.

one of those “originally a satire, now a user manual” types of thing.
 
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hollandia

Literally knows shit
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Foucault’s Pendulum’s a great book. It described pretty much the faulty thought processes that leads to this type of madness.

one of those “originally a satire, now a user manual” type of thing.
That's a fabulous book, though I'm still only halfway through it.

I do like Umberto Eco.
 

Bonkers

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Feb 15, 2019
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Pre Social media, getting your message out involved having a degree of expertise and evidence to support your ideas. Now fora like this give any loon a platform.

Moderation and "peer review" keep this place sane, but look at Pol Irish.

Also, pre social media, morons were excluded from dialogue outside of voting. Now those morons can engage with grifters and feel part of a movement. And they are made feel intelligent because "they know the truth".

Making your conspiracy about Chemtrails, microchips in vaccines and 5G death rays are a really good way of excluding any criticism of your grifting plans. As you will be surrounded by utter bovines.
Facebook, YouTube and Twitter have a lot to answer for. It’s only recently that they’ve banned the likes of Jim Corr.
 

Bonkers

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Feb 15, 2019
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Sorry it was the UK Times, not the IT.

Article link in Rus post above.


Conspiracy fans jubilant over demo ‘success’
Different protest groups came together in Dublin yesterday to object to the lockdown
Different protest groups came together in Dublin yesterday to object to the lockdown
BRYAN MEADE
Mark Tighe and Joe Galvin
Sunday February 28 2021, 12.01am GMT, The Sunday Times





"Among the protesters was Erica Parker, a mother of one from Swords, who was drinking a can of Heineken while holding a flyer from the National Party. Parker and her friend Susan wore matching black hoodies which said “RTE sold there [sic] souls” and “Save our children from the reptilians”.

Parker said she was protesting against the lockdown and vaccines. “We’re here to protest against RTE as well,” she added. Her friend said over “9,000 people went missing in Ireland last year”.

Asked how this was linked to RTE, the pair outlined a conspiracy theory that involved babies being killed and harvested for “adrenochrome” which is used to keep RTE celebrities “looking young” while the corpses are buried under the new children’s hospital.

The two claimed the government were “basically paedophiles” and that there were videos explaining this on a website known for hosting far-right speakers and conspiracy theories.
Social services should get involved there for the sake of that poor unfortunate child.
 
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