A United Ireland in our lifetime?

Shaadi

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Feb 16, 2019
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The status quo is still an orange one when you have the parties of unionism voting against an Irish language act.
The status quo is working the institutions. If the institutions cease to be then that's an end to the status quo.

The cake and eating it option is not on the menu.
 

ruserious

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Dec 4, 2018
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She fears her children will be shackled to a future she experienced. I would argue her children need to be unshackled from the past she experienced.
 
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Prof Honeydew

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She fears her children will be shackled to a future she experienced. I would argue her children need to be unshackled from the past she experienced.
She says she'd love a United Ireland but only if it didn't upset the peace of mind of her Unionist friends.

What a twat. I'd argue the children would be better off if they unshackled themselves from their silly pretentious mother.
 

Prof Honeydew

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If ever there was an argument for a United Ireland, it was never more clearly demonstrated than yesterday. Not a single event marking the creation of the Northern Ireland statelet made the headlines. The best I could find in a trawl of news sources was a mural on a Loyalist wall in Sandy Row and plaintive wailing by the Orange Order and Ben Lowry and the News Letter that celebrations of "our wee country" were disappointing.

If the DUP, the UUP, the TUV, the UDA, the UVF, the Queen of England, the British Tory Government, the British Tory media and the multicoloured marching minstrel shows couldn't rise themselves to celebrate one hundred years of their bastard creation, then it appears that no one in the whole wide world believes Britain's Partition of Ireland was anything other than an unmitigated disaster.

Maybe they were waiting for Micheál Martin and Leo Varadkar to spark them into action.
 

Leinsterview

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I see the official organs of the state are acting in pro-unionist unision: RTE Primetime covered the Scottish election last night and undoubtedly gave serious exposure to those expounding the 'Scotland can't afford independence' line.
 

Statsman

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I see the official organs of the state are acting in pro-unionist unision: RTE Primetime covered the Scottish election last night and undoubtedly gave serious exposure to those expounding the 'Scotland can't afford independence' line.
Did you watch Prime Time last night?
 

Statsman

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Anything interesting on it? I tend not to get to watch RTE since I've moved back home from site.
Nothing we didn't already know, but definitely not a hatchet job on independence.
 

Seosamh

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Actually, if you just click on the "Downlaod PDF" button, the entire article opens up.
Fair enough, even better…
 

hollandia

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Nothing we didn't already know, but definitely not a hatchet job on independence.
They've officially no skin in the game in Scotland, so not sure why they'd pick a side. They might appear to have a pro status quo leaning depending on who they interview from the unionist side (like NI, some are idealogical and vehemently opposed to indy, others less so, or for perceived economic reasons). All that means is they need to update their rolodex.
 

ruserious

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It appears the LOL now relies on fantasy for arguing for the Union.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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The question is simple; do you think you will see a United Ireland in your lifetime and would you welcome such a development?
No and No.. such an outcome could only happen at a great cost to the south both financially and in terms of peace and stability..

Seems that most nationalists notions about a United Ireland are romantic and are more about subsuming NI into the Republic rather than actually merging their intrinsic British/Protestant identity with our Irish/Catholic identity.
 

seanof

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No and No.. such an outcome could only happen at a great cost to the south both financially and in terms of peace and stability..

Seems that most nationalists notions about a United Ireland are romantic and are more about subsuming NI into the Republic rather than actually merging their intrinsic British/Protestant identity with our Irish/Catholic identity.
Is that you, Eoghan?
 

Zen

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No and No.. such an outcome could only happen at a great cost to the south both financially and in terms of peace and stability..

Seems that most nationalists notions about a United Ireland are romantic and are more about subsuming NI into the Republic rather than actually merging their intrinsic British/Protestant identity with our Irish/Catholic identity.
For me,it just makes sense. Not romanticism.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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For me,it just makes sense. Not romanticism.
So can I assume you would be happy to swap our Tri-Colour flag for say a Red Hand of Ulster flag and change our National Anthem or do you expect the northerners to change all theirs?
 

hollandia

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So can I assume you would be happy to swap our Tri-Colour flag for say a Red Hand of Ulster flag and change our National Anthem or do you expect the northerners to change all theirs?
That would be a false assumption. Ask things are up for grabs including flags and anthems, but considering the reason they're up for grabs, exchanging a tricolour for a red hand of Ulster would clearly not be a runner. Also, for reference, I'm a northerner. The red hand is not my flag. So much wrong in so few sentences.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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That would be a false assumption. Ask things are up for grabs including flags and anthems, but considering the reason they're up for grabs, exchanging a tricolour for a red hand of Ulster would clearly not be a runner. Also, for reference, I'm a northerner. The red hand is not my flag. So much wrong in so few sentences.
Ok, but my point is that most southern Irish people that I know assume that we in the south would simply subsume the north and change nothing.. basically we in the south would take over the north and give up nothing while they would be expected to give up their British identity.
 

hollandia

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Ok, but my point is that most southern Irish people that I know assume that we in the south would simply subsume the north and change nothing.. basically we in the south would take over the north and give up nothing while they would be expected to give up their British identity.
I've lived in the south for over fifteen years at this stage. There's literally no one I know who thinks that. In fact much of the foot dragging and direct opposition to a United Ireland from southern quarters stems from the fact that there will be change, and massive societal change at that.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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I've lived in the south for over fifteen years at this stage. There's literally no one I know who thinks that. In fact much of the foot dragging and direct opposition to a United Ireland from southern quarters stems from the fact that there will be change, and massive societal change at that.
What societal changes do you envisage happening in the south in order to facilitate a United Ireland?
 

hollandia

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What societal changes do you envisage happening in the south in order to facilitate a United Ireland?
It will be hugely more difficult for the country to be run by and for existing vested interests. People in ROI will want and will refuse to settle for less than some things that NI provides as standard, while people in NI will look at certain things ROI does well. Simply subsuming NI into ROI will not work. And that's why literally no one is proposing it.
 

seanof

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Micheál Martin's bluff being called it seems.
And great timing, the day before Antrim beats Clare in hurling.
 
Apr 24, 2020
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It will be hugely more difficult for the country to be run by and for existing vested interests. People in ROI will want and will refuse to settle for less than some things that NI provides as standard, while people in NI will look at certain things ROI does well. Simply subsuming NI into ROI will not work. And that's why literally no one is proposing it.
I see that stuff as happening in stages.

The big dog, the NHS? Well, we'll probably meet in the middle there, with essentially an expansion of the free GP care age brackets and then look at prescription costs. We have a public health system already here. It just happens we have a big private one too. The latter will continue , in reduced form.

Social welfare will be thorny, as, on one level, the South is better.

Taxation can be blended over a number of years.

In no scenario, do I see a big bang solution. Sure there will be an alignment on shared nationality, then a GE on new constituencies, but the money and health aspects will be phases.

I don't see any other way of doing it.
 

mac tíre

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Ok, but my point is that most southern Irish people that I know assume that we in the south would simply subsume the north and change nothing.. basically we in the south would take over the north and give up nothing while they would be expected to give up their British identity.
No-one would be expected to give up their identity. Irish people in Britain don't have to and likewise British people in Ireland now. I'm Irish in the north, and while I'll argue it's part of Ireland, is under a different (to me, foreign) government.

That's before we argue that some of those with a British identity also have an Irish one too.
 

soccop

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I see that stuff as happening in stages.

The big dog, the NHS? Well, we'll probably meet in the middle there, with essentially an expansion of the free GP care age brackets and then look at prescription costs. We have a public health system already here. It just happens we have a big private one too. The latter will continue , in reduced form.

Social welfare will be thorny, as, on one level, the South is better.

Taxation can be blended over a number of years.

In no scenario, do I see a big bang solution. Sure there will be an alignment on shared nationality, then a GE on new constituencies, but the money and health aspects will be phases.

I don't see any other way of doing it.
Education will be a big issue too. Especially the 1st and 2nd level systems.
I suppose it's too much to hope that it would be an opportunity to wrest control of schools from churches.
 
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soccop

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Now if you had said " to wrest control of churches from religion ," you would have been talking a second dissolution, that would be interesting.
I didn't mean it -- but it's a good idea.
 

seanof

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Education will be a big issue too. Especially the 1st and 2nd level systems.
I suppose it's too much to hope that it would be an opportunity to wrest control of schools from churches.
It should have happened years ago, north and south. I have the impression that there would be little resistance to this from the Catholic hierarchy, at least. Now, I suppose, if parents are willing to pay privately for denominational private schools, then maybe that should be their right, provided the national curriculum is taught.
 
Apr 24, 2020
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It should have happened years ago, north and south. I have the impression that there would be little resistance to this from the Catholic hierarchy, at least. Now, I suppose, if parents are willing to pay privately for denominational private schools, then maybe that should be their right, provided the national curriculum is taught.
I'm conflicted on this. As both administrations have different issues in this regard.

Here, religion is largely irrelevant. Your kids' school is a class thing. And an agent of classism. But so is your address, so it's hard to unpick. That's my conflict. I drive past 3 schools doing the school run.

In NI, integration would have to be basically forced, and managed by quotas, but again, addresses and geographical distribution of both communities would hamper any impact.

Not sure what would work. I'd start with a lot of kids' grassroots soccer though.
 

seanof

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I'm conflicted on this. As both administrations have different issues in this regard.

Here, religion is largely irrelevant. Your kids' school is a class thing. And an agent of classism. But so is your address, so it's hard to unpick. That's my conflict. I drive past 3 schools doing the school run.

In NI, integration would have to be basically forced, and managed by quotas, but again, addresses and geographical distribution of both communities would hamper any impact.

Not sure what would work. I'd start with a lot of kids' grassroots soccer though.
I see your point but I think that's mainly a Dublin thing. In rural Ireland, there's generally only one secondary school within a reasonable distance. Address might matter in some larger towns but I'd say it's more a Dublin and maybe Cork Belfast Limerick thing.
 

seanof

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I didn't know this, but apparently Peig was heavily censored, and the unabridged version is actually quite raucous.
So I heard just recently. There were choices other than Peig on the curriculum since at least the mid 70s. It wasn't taught in my school.

Much of original Irish language lterature was quite raucous. Brían Merriman's Cúirt an Mheán Oíche being just one example. I understand that the Christian Brothers, na Bráithre Críostaí, routinely censored their republications of texts for use in their schools.
 
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